From Jonathan Clarke
I stumbled across an intriguing-sounding article by Mary Mills entitled 'A
mystery steel works.’ in Bygone Kent, 20 (1999), 37-42 – about Henry
Bessemer’s Greenwich Steel Works. That Bessemer might have required Thames-side
works in London to better serve national and international customers, away from
his competitors in the north, seems entirely plausible.
Were the Appleby Bros, also on the Greenwich Peninsula,
connected with Lincolnshire firm, The Appleby Iron Company, formed in 1874
(later of Appleby-Frodingham fame)? They were involved with the manufacture of
Marine Boilers.
I wonder whether you
might be able to help me with another great steelmaster with Greenwich
connections - German-born English engineer and inventor Sir William Siemens
(1823-1883). I want to know where his
Kentish country house, ''Sherwood', near Tunbridge Wells, was exactly. It may
be in institutional use or otherwise absorbed or altered, but do you know
whether it survives in any form? According to his biography, he moved there c.
1877. The reason I'm interested is that it made very early use of steel. In
1880, following a discussion about the imminent use of steel in architecture he
stated "I had at my house in the country a terrace, and under that terrace
I had a billiard-room ... I put steel girders over this billiard-room, which
was about 20-ft. span, and by filling in between each girder with cement and
tiling and lead, I was able to gain 18 in. in height, and obtained a perfectly dry
room, whereas before I had considerable difficulty in keeping the water out.
This simply shows how, by the use of this stronger material, advantages in
convenience and even in cost may be obtained".
From Dick Moy
I would firstly like to congratulate Jack Vaughan & Mary Mills on
producing what I consider to be the most interesting and ongoing record of
historical research in Kent and the London area.
Having read with interest Philip Binns' suggestion of saving the 1930's
Merryweather factory lettering - a very difficult task I fear - I am reminded
of a deal I did with that Company about 40 years ago when they demolished the
older of the two buildings fronting onto Greenwich High Road. Some of you may
remember the two marvellous three dimensional iron cupid masks each 22" in
diameter. Both heads blowing hard at the flames. There was sadly no interest in
industrial archaeology at that time and having displayed these for some weeks
in my shop in Nelson Road, they ended up somewhere in the United States. Photographs
of them must exist however.
As an Antique Dealer of 48 years standing, I have so many memories of
buying and selling examples of our industrial and commercial heritage. I bought virtually everything of interest
from Lovibonds, the brewers, including 8 of the most marvellous thin and deep
10 ft high brass bound sherry barrels. Tools from the coopers and wheelwrights
sheds. Order and sales ledgers back to the 19th. A c.1900 painting of a loaded dray by their
tame sign writer. From Woolwich the residual stock and tools from a beautiful
cl800 pottery kiln, from Deptford Victualling Yard/Dockyard site numerous iron
plaques from biscuit ovens and relics from the Masting Pond. I tried at that
time to get the London/Guildhall Museums interested in photographically
recording the last of these buildings - at least those many which unlike the
rum warehouses were demolished and was told that the pressures of recording the
constantly re-appearing and certainly very exciting relics of Roman London left
them no time to stray beyond the City walls. Even a fascinating Roman to
Medieval site in Bishopsgate was left to "treasure hunting" by
tipping the building team as it was again outside the "Holy Wall". My
small photographs of Deptford Dockyard during demolition are the only ones I
know of- I have kept numerous smaller relics from the Barbers/Wigmakers in
Stockwell Street.
All the old family and trading records of Hudsons - Greenwich's longest
established business, still trading in 1975 - scientific instrument makers,
opticians and art material suppliers
whose goodwill, stock and trading name I purchased and continued to trade with
until 1980.
The tobacconist in Nelson Road, a smithy in Bardsley Lane, a fabulous
fitted 19thc chemist shop on Shooters Hill. The beautiful Regency shopfront in
Creek Road that, thank God, we did persuade the Museum of London to keep and
barge builders'. shipbreakers' and other memorabilia from local land based,
water borne and traveling commercial enterprises. I still have many of the smaller
relics and documents in my own collection and quite a lot of other more bulky
items somewhere in one or other of my stores. They were kept there waiting in
vain for the Borough Museum to make some kind of appearance in the old
Greenwich Town Centre rather than remain practically on the borders of Kent.
From Norman Stancel,
I need some help.
I have a leather fire bucket that is red in colour with a black stripe around
the top and bottom with a leather handle. On the outside it has SAND written on
it. The bottom has MERRYWEATHER around the rim and below that it has LONDON.
Can you help or do you know who might. Thank you Alpharetta, Georgia, USA. NORMFIRE@aol.com
From: Joe Brierley
I am a final year
student at Ravensbourne College of design and communication, majoring in
environment architecture. For my major
project I am interested in the site of 28-30 Wood Wharf and proposing a
sympathetic restoration of the site as part of a local historical and cultural
centre. I had chosen the site before
researching recent proposals for its redevelopment, and was pleasantly
surprised to find that it is such an intrinsic part of the regional maritime
history. As it stands, it is a unique time warp into the traditional techniques
and processes of the working river. It
is this quality I wish to preserve, and as a student proposing a purely concept
scheme, I do not have to worry about the revenue earning potential of the site,
a factor commercial and residential developers have to consider.
The aim is to
design a working museum complex, demonstrating traditional maritime craftsman
techniques, and the training of these lost skills. Because the site was also
the Great Greenwich Steam Ferry slipway, and was noted for its deep water and
narrow beach, I am keen to link the site into a new river transport scheme.
Although the "Reach 2000" site around the Deptford Creek is work in
progress I intend to incorporate this into my site, and the whole scheme will
be an ideal master plan of how the area could look if the history of the area
was more important than its income! I have researched the site at the Woolwich
Planning Office and have some information on the site, but if you could help in
any way I would greatly appreciate it!
From
Andy Dickson
In researching a
vessel seen in Belfast Docks, the Nord Star, I came across your page (Volume 3,
Issue 5, September 2000), and a request from a Mr A Ward for photographs of any
ships built by the company of Cubows Ltd between 1972 and 1982. The Nord Star
that visits Belfast is a small vessel of less than 500 grt, built around
1978-1980 by Cubows Ltd of Woolwich, and apparently now owned by Shearer
Shipping, Lerwick, and Shetland. I have
a rather indifferent photograph of this vessel, taken only today (in poor
light), but I might be able to get a better picture in the future.
From:
Jan Snowball
I stumbled across
your web site this evening. I am starting to investigate my family history,
which I believe has very strong links with Bugsby's Reach. Great Great granddad
had a wharf there, family run business & changed his name from Bugsby to
Bigsby. Also had something to do with manufacturing paint in that area. My
father Ernest Victor Bigsby's family business was in the manufacture of paints
& it was his grand or great grandad who owned a business [can't think it
was still in paints though - how old could the manufacture of paint be?].
Anyway, the story goes that the chap who changed is name used to be a bit of a
tyrant & his workers used to call him Bugsby the bugger.... so he changed
it to Bigsby. I am led to believe the business was on this site & maybe I assumed
there was a wharf there as the stretch was called Bugsby's reach. Apparently,
there is a big family vault somewhere (Rotherhithe?)
Ernest Victor
Bigsby was a professional chemist who finished his days at ICI (which has more
recently employed my dad & elder brother). so paint is firmly in the
blood!! What do you know of the land use along Bugsby's reach, any sign of
manufacturing?
From:
Mike Jelliss
I am researching
my family history The Jelliss Family who were mainly engineers in the
Greenwich, Deptford and Erith areas. My great grandfather Charles James
Jelliss. Died in 18/04/1896 aged 54. He accidentally fell to his death from the
ladder of his ship the SS Racoon and drowned in the Thames off College View
Isle of Dogs I have been unable to locate College View or any information on
the SS Racoon. My grandfather is described in 1901 as (Stoker in Electric
Lighter?). He later worked as an Electrical Engineer with Vickers Sons and
Maxims where he helped develop the Maxim Flying Machine. I have been unable to
find any references to electric lighters?
From Jenny Hammerton
I am the Senior
Cataloguer for British Pathe News and I have just been working on a film of the
Welsbach Lighting Co factory in the 1910s. Was this in Greenwich? You might be
interested in our website at www.britishpathe.com where you can view any film
in our collection FREE OF CHARGE thanks to lottery funding - we have films that
date from 1896 - 1970 and are still adding to the site. I am sure that there
would be some items of interest to your members. Best regards -
From:
Eileen & Rod Rogers
My grandfather
was Charles Telford Field and he was the product of the marriage between a Miss
Maudslay and a Mr Field. I have the original (I believe) model of the twin
cylinder steam engine (Siamese) that was proposed to Isambard Brunel for the SS
"Great Western". The consortium later decided to build their own
engine when screw was preferred to paddle. The engine went on to power many
warships as, I am quite sure, you know. I should be interested in disposing of
the model but I believe my children do not want this.
From Paul Sturman
So the
Merryweather site is going to be flattened; will they never learn? I have some
recent colour photos of the site, including the lettered frontage and the
original 1876 building (difficult to shoot) taken with a super wide-angle lens.
These are available on CD-rom.
Just a couple of things re the January
magazine Jim Arthur wrote to enquire about Merryweather photos and wanted to
get in touch with anyone who had any.
From: Emma Creasey
As a resident of
Greenwich I have for a long time admired the industrial riverfront stretching
from Deptford down to the Greenwich peninsular. Over the years this area has
seen many changes and faces even more in the next few years. Along with many
admirers of this area I have periodically photographed the buildings and shore
in order to preserve my memory of them. In doing so my interest in photography
increased and I am now studying BA Photography at the London College of
Printing. For this term we have been asked to explore the theme of
history/time; an ideal opportunity form me to further extend my knowledge of
the riverfront area and also photograph it more seriously. I am looking for
people or organisations, which can provide me with local history and hopefully
access to some of the key buildings. Having discovered your newsletters on the
Internet I thought that your society might be a good place to start. It would
be incredibly useful to me if you could supply me with details regarding your
organisation and details of any specialists who might be able to discuss the
area with me. I look forward to hearing from you shortly and wish you all the
best for the New Year.
From: John P. Dawson
I am researching a steamer that was built in
the mid 1800's with a Penn engine. Do you know if any records of that Greenwich
builder are extant?
From
Diana Rimel
Dear
Editor
Christopher Phillpott otherwise excellent
study of the Creek has reiterated the myth that Captain Cook's old
ship the Discovery
was moored in the Thames as a convict
hulk. The following is part of a
project I put together last year on
‘Convict Ships and Prison Hulks’
“Old disused ships declared unfit for sea
were considered acceptable for housing prisoners and sick and disabled sailors
in the 18th and 19th centuries. Several of these were moored in the Creek or
off it in Greenwich Reach. In 1824,
Discovery, the ship of the explorer, George Vancouver, who had served under
Captain James Cook, was used as a convict hulk. Vancouver had charted and
sailed to the North-West American coast, the Cape of Good Hope, Australia and
New Zealand, and from 1791-95 circumnavigated the world in the converted
collier Discovery. In 1833 Discovery
was broken up and replaced by the frigate Thames. The Seamen’s Hospital Society in Greenwich
established a hospital on the hulk of the ship Grampus in 1821. This proved too
small so the Society fitted up the Dreadnought with 200 beds in 1831. It was moored near the east side of the Creek
mouth. The former Dreadnought Seamen’s
Hospital was named after this ship. Conditions on board these vessels were very
bad. The hulks were broken up for their timber when they were no longer of any
use. The practice of using them for
prisoners ceased by the 1860s.”
From
John Day
Sorry to disagree with Jim Arthur, but the
muzzle loading rifled bore goes back to 1498 when Gaspard Zollner used straight
rifling in a hand gun to overcome fouling caused by poor powder. A couple
of years later Augustus Kutter used helical
rifling and a gun having six grooves
with a helix of one in twenty six was made in Hungary in 1547. This gun used to be in the Rotunda years ago,
but has long disappeared. R.M.L.s
(Rifled Muzzle Loader) were still in use in the earlier part of the last
(20th.) century. The early breech loading rifled guns (R.B.L.) were so
unreliable that a return was made to R.M.L.s for some years. The Russians used
"shunt" rifling having a double groove, a deep groove allowing the
studs to slide freely during loading and a groove decreasing towards the
muzzle, with which the studs engaged to provide rotation on firing. There is a
paper on 'The History of Rifling' in Vol. 12 of the Journal of the Ordnance
Society. The official title of the
device shown pages 50 & 51 is ‘Apparatus Lifting Guns, Hurst Pattern, Mk.I
L for R.M.L. 38 Tons'
From Gordon Broughton
I was born in
1915 in Eastcombe Avenue, Charlton, and my wife was born off Blackwall Lane,
Greenwich, in 1917. I was educated at
Fossdene Road School and Roan School for Boys, initially in Eastney Street,
Greenwich, and then Maze Hill. In 1931 I started my career of 45 years as a
Laboratory Attendant in the Research Department in the Arsenal, which at that
time was under the War Office. Eventually,
after several name changes, the complex of laboratories became the Royal
Armament Research and Development Establishment at Fort Halstead, near
Sevenoaks, from where I retired in 1976 as a Senior Scientific Officer. Mary
Mills’ Book Greenwich and Woolwich at Work, makes brief reference to the
Research Department, which, although within the Arsenal Walls off Griffin Manor
Way, was not a component of the Royal Arsenal per se which had its own
Metallurgical Laboratory. I began and ended my career in the Metallurgical
Research Branch, which particularly in the 1930s had several eminent scientists
whose basic research papers were published by the Institute of Metals and the
Iron and Steel Institute.
One memorable
experience of my early days was the firing of 18-inch Naval guns at the proof
butts in the Arsenal on Fridays. Residents of Plumstead would have feared for
their windows on Fridays. Quite often I was performing the menial task of
taking a barrow load of rifle barrels to another proofing range and had to pass
very close to the Proof Butts.
I was surprised
to see Mary Mills linking the Royal Arsenal in the same chapter with the Royal
Arsenal Co-operative Society. Their Commonwealth Buildings were of course in
the old Royal Dockyard established by Henry VIII. The cobbler shown on page 31
of her book may well be an uncle of mine!
Before leaving Orpington for Cirencester in 2000 I visited the Crossness
pumping station where an amazing restoration is being done by keen
volunteers. It was also featured a few
months ago in Channel 5 TV’s The great Stink a tribute to the great
engineer Bazalgette. The site is perhaps
just outside the Woolwich boundary.
From John
Barratt
I am building a model railway of the old
Greenwich Park station that stood where the hotel and cinema now stand. The
main station building stood in Stockwell Street and ran between Burney Street
and London Street (now Greenwich High Road) and under Royal Hill.
My problem is relatively simple. Whilst I have a
plan of the station building and a lot of pictures, I have nothing that has a
scale to it. I therefore can not model the station building with any accuracy.
I have been everywhere, to Mycenae Road (who were very helpful), bought various
books over the years, been to the track mob at Waterloo (who sent me the
unsealed station plan) and even to the National Railway Museum (who have
station building plans, but apparently not one of Greenwich Park).
Even the South Eastern and Chatham Railway
Society, to which I belong, can not think of anything more to do to try to get
scaled plans.
So I wondered whether, with your contacts, you
could either send me scaled elevation plans of the station or point me in the
direction of someone who can. I would, of course, pay reasonable costs. Thanks.
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